What Pakistan cannot afford to do is to give the US a reason to keep on coming in and bombing civilian areas inside of Pakistan.
To make a long story short, Pakistan is faced with two problems...
a) People going into Afghanistan from Pakistan.
b) US attacks inside of Pakistan to stop the flow of such people.
Now if the same people turn their guns against Pakistan for trying to stop them, then what is the Government of Pakistan to do? Simply lay down their weapons and allow these people to carry on with their activities inside of Afghanistan?
If the answer is YES - then American attacks will become a daily part of our lives and there will be no end to it.
If the answer is NO- then talk by all means, but only from a position of strength. In order to do so, the militants also need to be pressurized by force.
Most people understand that a long insurgency in the heart of the Pashtun lands is of no benefit to Pakistan. However if Pakistan does not try to get these folks to limit their activities, then Pakistani nation as a whole will have to pay.
So either you try to save Pakistan or you damage Pakistan for the cause of the Afghan liberation.
which route the Pakistani nation should take?
LaWaNgEeN
you damage Pakistan for the cause of the Afghan liberation.
===========================================
huhhh,,konsi liberation,,everyone has their own interests.
Farhan Chaudhry
border seal karne mai kya takleef hai US ko kisi ne aj tak meri is baat ka jawab nahi diya
.
kya rozana drone attacks aur military aid jo Pakistan ko dee jati hain us se ziada paisa lagey ga border seal karne mai ?
Farhan Chaudhry
n mat bhulo sirf idher se loog nahi jatey udher se bhi idher aa kar karwaiyan kar ke afghanistan bhaag jatey hain hamain bhi faida hai border seal karne ka kitni bar bait ullah mehsood afghanistan bhaga aur SWAT operation ke time bhi bohat se terrorists bhaag kar afghanistan chaley gaye
.
border seal karna hi best solution hai
Awesome Khan
Its not easy sealing a border of thousands of miles, Farhan.
@HMX, i've been waiting a LONG time for a thread like this from you, bro. This is going to be interesting.
Hussain
the answer is NO- then talk by all means, but only from a position of strength. In order to do so, the militants also need to be pressurized by force[2]
Awesome Khan
The US - the strongest policing force around - can't even control its OWN borders against illiterate Mexicans.
You think Pakistan can?
Farhan Chaudhry
Its not easy sealing a border of thousands of miles, Farhan.
.
thousands? :O sirf agencies ke sath border seal kar dain to masla adhey se ziada khatem ho jaye ga balochistan ke sath na bhi ho to itna issue nahi jitna idher hai
.
aur kitne years hogaye drone attacks ko aur kitne years hogaye military aid daite huway US Ko ye easy hai ?
Farhan Chaudhry
wahan ye halaat hain jo afghan border per face karne parte hain ? ap 1 fenced border ko 1 khulley border se compare nahi kar sakte jahan koi puchne wala hi nahi
Farhan Chaudhry
hum stand lain to US hamain burger bana kar kha nahi jaye ga :P PAF easily attack karne ki capability rakhti hain pressurize karain US Ko drone technology lain nahi to jo aata hai ura dain n ab koi rehman malik wali bongi na marey high altitude ki waja se hum drone ko nahi rok sakte :D
.
khud attack karain terrorist camps per I'm damn sure PAF jab karwai karey gi civilian casualties minimum ho jain gi aur Tribal elders per "ghaliti" se attack nahi hoga.
Agent HMX
Apart from Money, we have several other issues related to border fencing.
To keep the things in perspective - Pakistan put forward a proposal to create a 10 Km exclusion zone along the Pak-Afghan border. Where both Pak army and ISAF can operate freely to keep the infiltrators in check.
The proposal was supported by several NATO countries (canada, turkey etc) as it reduces the chance of cross border infiltration and gives flexibility to both ISAF and Pak Army.
But MMA opposed it - that gave the US and Afghan government the cards to drop the proposal.
As for drone tech - USA has not shared this technology with any of its allies. Even Brits and NATO allies.
Secondly, predators and Rapiers are connected with USAF JSTARS satellites based command and control system and even if Pakistan gets Predator it will need huge investment to make remote monitoring and control of Predator similar to what CIA-US Army are currently doing..
So Pakistan has to come with its own.
Agent HMX
Inshort - political and financial limitations.
M-M
I think the proposal about fencing the border should be tabled again,carefully preplanned to make sue no sentimental bullshit will hijack it this time around .. we can get the money from nato and their allies
Agent HMX
I agree - But - As far as I know - ANP thinks that this step would split Pashtuns..:P In other words, the both MMA, and ANP have same opinion.
Besides border fencing is not the solution of this problem.
(I'm just stating the simple facts)
M-M
Pakistan lives (and that too majorly pashtuns) are more precious than this so called ethnic split,fencing is not entire solution but it nonetheless is part of solution
Yawar.Rave Diger
HMX
What a thread. Gosh.
Hats off.
Yawar.Rave Diger
If the answer is YES - then American attacks will become a daily part of our lives and there will be no end to it.
If this is going to happen, then rest assured that drone attacks will further increase. Not only in their strikes, but in distance as well. They will come well inside Pakistan. Well well inside Pakistan.
The fact is simple. We don't have many options. We have to attack them, and put them on the back foot, from all positions.
Those who say that militants are also under our control, fully, are also living in lala lands.
Cheers2Hell
Afghanistan is our past, present and future . We can not jeopardize our long term interests with Afghanistan because of short term interests of a super power . Pushtoons must be truly integrated in the future political system of Afghanistan and Northern Alliance should not be used as a proxy against Pushtoons by world super power . A stable and prosperous Afghanistan is in the best interest of Pakistan but not at the cost of Indian dominance on Kabul.
Troll
//Afghanistan is our past, present and future . We can not jeopardize our long term interests with Afghanistan because of short term interests of a super power . Pushtoons must be truly integrated in the future political system of Afghanistan and Northern Alliance should not be used as a proxy against Pushtoons by world super power . A stable and prosperous Afghanistan is in the best interest of Pakistan but not at the cost of Indian dominance on Kabul. //
In short; Support Taliban.
Cheers2Hell
In short; Support Taliban
Taliban is also a synonym for Pushtoon resistance against allied forces in Afghanistan.
If US , Russia , India , Iran, Turkey etc can support Northern Alliance , why cant Pakistan support their rivals to safe guard our own interests.
Yawar.Rave Diger
C2h
what are we fighting against then?
Now coming to the solution, Pakistanis at large are delusional, it seems like for all those years ..Pakistan has never been a priority for Pakistanis but all sorts of vague terms like religion, brotherhood, pakhtuns, afghan liberation and wat not. Pakistan seems like a forgotten case here. And to be honest politicians (ALL of them particularly IK, JI and likes) arent doing any favours to this blind nation.
So i would just rest my personal opinion here...and tht is....opt for the route tht would keep Pakistan intact...and for tht sacrifices should be given and Afghani brotherhood should be dismissed. Abt time we set our priorities right...things wont be IDEAL either way but we have to choose our interest and act selfish like the rest of the world.
Cheers2Hell
We are fighting for our survival and to avoid becoming a victim of 'The New Great Game'
Ahsan
Who cares about afghani brotherhood? I have said this before as well; Afghanistan as a whole should be bombed back to stoneages.
Troll
C2H
//If US , Russia , India , Iran, Turkey etc can support Northern Alliance , why cant Pakistan support their rivals to safe guard our own interests. //
1. Morally wrong. I'm not paying taxes so that we can support cavemen cutting off noses of woman in Afghanistan.
2. Even if we assume for sake of argument that these taliban are really nice people, I still won't support the idea of supporting taliban. Why? Because that will make uncle sam very angry. What do you think is the end of all this if it goes as according to our plan? USA will again sanction Pakistan as a punishment for playing double game. And we have to bear these sanctions for what? "friendly government" in Afghanistan? Do a cost benefit analysis and you will realize that we are better off with having northern alliance in Afghanistan but good relations with USA!
Cheers2Hell
Kindly excuse my poor English grammar skills (:
Ahsan
why cant Pakistan support their rivals to safe guard our own interests.
--
So simply put, you want Pakistan to support Taliban hoping that they will protect us against all the other powers? the group of people who are already murdering thousands of people based on same religion and ethnicity - how do you expect them to cooperate with Pakistan? dude, dont be delusional.
3:47 am (18 minutes ago)
Yawar.Rave Diger
C2H
We are fighting for our survival and to avoid becoming a victim of 'The New Great Game'
---
But if we are to protect the Taliban like you mentioned, then why fight them?
Where do we draw the line? Which is the point where we try to strike a balance?
Why fight them? Or better, what point to which we fight them?
I mean, it does not make sense. At one point you say protect interest, and then we also fight them?
Farhan Chaudhry
n what exactly is that? i mean the great game? 1 myth ye bhi hai ke arab mai jitne revolution aa rahe hain wo CIA sponsored hain :P aur 2012 mai 1 tehreek Pakistan mai start hogi so kya hai ye great game ? :P n new great game n old great game mai kya difference hai ?
Troll
C2H and Yawar
And more importantly; What is a friendly government in Afghanistan supposed to achieve for Pakistan in the first place?
Sure it's nice to have friendly governments in your backyard, but AT WHAT PRICE?
The ire of the USA? Is that a price we should pay for having a "friendly government" in Afghanistan?
Sounds retarded to me!
Cheers2Hell
US consider ISI a terrorist organization similar to Hamas and Hezbollah and Pakistani call ISI an American proxy .... so where should WE draw a line .... thats a Gazillion dollar, euro.Rs, Yuan or whatever currency question .
Yawar.Rave Diger
C2H
I will be blunt here sir.
YOU are part of this fight, in its actual sense. And even you dont know where to draw the line, and the reason you are fighting it?
Troll
Why can't Pakistanis realize that not having good relations with EU and USA is very very harmful? Especially, when you have enemies like India whoally, when you have enemies like India who are several times your size?
What do you want to starve to death but keep "strategic death"?
Yawar.Rave Diger
Our largest trading partners:
EU and US.
Cheers2Hell
im fighting because during our passing i took an oath of allegiance under flag of Pakistan which bounds me to go to any place by land, air and sea when ordered by the supreme authority of pakistan
Troll
C2H and Yawar
Not just largest trading partners but we register HUGE trade surplus with EU and US!
Warna to middle east ke saath bhi buhut trade hai but then woh saara drain ho jaata hai because of oil import.
Basically if our exports to EU and US were to reduce it would create huge imbalance in our trade account.
Aur phir sub se ziada FDI aur FPI bhi yahin se aati hai.
Tell me this C2H, Pakistan Iran ki tarha bun jaye?
Ahsan
Peace of Pakistan and Afghanistan is connected with each other. there can't be any peace until US Is present in Afghanistan. There is needs of a Pakistan friendly Government is Afghanistan free of US and Indian Influence.
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